Curse

mastermaxx1 · Sep 04, 2008, 01:27 AM // 01:27

it would definitely give the heroes I never use a chance to get used, but it would seem that it would overpower people and spimplify areas that are suppose to be a challenge.

FireFox · Sep 04, 2008, 01:29 AM // 01:29

Make a poll asking if people would like to have ice cream... see results.

ANET MUST IMPLEMENT ICE CREAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Victorious · Sep 04, 2008, 01:49 AM // 01:49

Voted yes.

While I can see having 7 heroes having a strong impact on the 'market' (full DOA 1p/Hero clears/FoW runs/UW..etc), the system has already been put in place when heroes were initially introduced.

I do not, for any reason, see this as a PUG vs. H/H ideal, in any way, shape, or form. If you can vanquish an entire game with H/H, get masters on each and every mission, it is already your decision to either PUG it, take H/H, or rock some socks with your guild.

There are times when I'd simply like to log on, vanquish an area or two real quick, grab a quick masters I didn't already have on HM, and just not deal with people, so H/H are coming along for the ride. There are also times when the guild's busy doing other things, and either I don't feel like joining or don't have the requested profession necessary to join. At this point the H/H and I are going out to kill some stuff, or I'm going to farm a bit, or I'm going to make some money in Kamadan.

The only place I make any distinction is with PvP, but this should go without saying. If you like your heroes, and need some PvP time with them, go get some more commander points.

Inner Salbat · Sep 04, 2008, 02:10 AM // 02:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

(Sabway not included, lolz).

I hope your kidding right? even sabway takes a serious amount of skill to pull off you can't just run in and agro the world in hm mode.

Perfected Shadow · Sep 04, 2008, 03:52 AM // 03:52

25 heroes that you can run what you want on vs. mr wammo. Decisions, decisions.

JDRyder · Sep 04, 2008, 06:44 AM // 06:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

I still see outposts fairly active, I'm not sure what districts you're playing in. Granted, they're not *as* popular as they used to be, but see below for my explanation for that.

but is it near what it use to be, before NF?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

"Im not sure why so many people say pugs arent assholes, ive always had a pug talk shit to me. ever think it may just be u?"

are you saying im a nice guy?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

This is where you have the lose-lose situation when it comes to pugs. If there weren't heroes, then A. the "good" players, fed-up with pugs, quit playing, or B. the "good" players, fed-up with pugs, find a good guild and only play with guildies.

In other words, pugs are hopeless. The more you cater to them the shittier the game gets (for a good example see Ursan pre-nerf).

If people leave cause they have to play with pugs why didnt so many people leave before heros?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

yea and you can, with henchmen, but adding 7 heros is not going to help the game at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

Just for the record: "online" is not the same as "multiplayer". Games which use log-in servers and/or content streaming as copy protection like, say, Half Life2 or Video Poker do, are online, but not all online games are multiplayer games.
That something is "online" does not automatically mean "multiplayer".

HL2 have is a SP game. It does have a DM mode but its not part of the SP part of the game or even connected to it, its a whole different App

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyper Cutter

Also, if you remove heroes, most of the people who used them won't start using pugs, they'll just use the hench. The same thing they were probably doing before heroes were introduced.

yep, henchmen are harder to work with tho cause you cant flag them or make their build

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

I hope your kidding right? even sabway takes a serious amount of skill to pull off you can't just run in and agro the world in hm mode.

i lol'ed IRL

DreamWind · Sep 04, 2008, 06:46 AM // 06:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

How so?
Because you can get in a PuG easier?
That was because GW was smaller. Don't make claims without a reasonable argument

Who needs a reasonable argument as long as most people agree with you right?

ALF71BE · Sep 04, 2008, 07:01 AM // 07:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

but is it near what it use to be, before NF?

It will be never be like that because the game is three years old.

Quote:

yea and you can, with henchmen, but adding 7 heros is not going to help the game at all.

Help the game? In what sense? The game box says you can play alone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Who needs a reasonable argument as long as most people agree with you right?

Yep. 5:1, the PuG defenders really have no argument as PuG's were dead long before this thread, and since the very early game we had the option to play alone. Taking away heroes won't make them come from the tomb.
At any case, it will slow down the rate at which people can get to certain zones of the game, eventually boring anyone who can't do it with henchies because most certainly he won't be able to do it with PuG's.

Heroes also add variety to the game; with seven, the builds are dozens and you won't get as bored as you may think for finishing eveything too soon.

Red Sonya · Sep 04, 2008, 07:12 AM // 07:12

Now that UB is nerfed it is easy to use the reason as "it would make the players too overpowering" and Anet just nerfed that by nerfing UB so no 7 heroes now for that reason alone.

Quote:

The game box says you can play alone.

But it never said you could play with ALL heroes either now did it?

It says you can play with a group of SKILLED HENCHMEN. So, you got your skilled henchmen and you got your 3 heroes and thas all you should have according to the box.

DreamWind · Sep 04, 2008, 07:44 AM // 07:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

Because many of us are playing a singleplayer Guild Wars (or were playing; D2 and DoW are much more entertaining right now). That's intended by ArenaNet as a fully acceptable playstyle, though it's been implemented very, very poorly.

Here it is again since you seem to have missed it or ignored it.

You post the box picture as if it is some kind of evidence. The box also says skill>time and that Guild Wars was supposed to be mostly a competitive game, and both of those went down the crapper. The box argument means nothing anymore.

JDRyder · Sep 04, 2008, 07:50 AM // 07:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALF71BE

It will be never be like that because the game is three years old.

Help the game? In what sense? The game box says you can play alone

no it can be better

it will help cause it will make the game harder for 1 and it will get more people to pug stuff, adding 7 heros will kill the game, taking them away will get people to play together.

ya the box says you can play solo.. with henchmen.

its not like any of that matters cause just cause its on the box does not mean its better for the game.

Red Sonya · Sep 04, 2008, 08:17 AM // 08:17

Heroes decreased the number of people available for pugging and that's a fact because everyone knows and remembers how sorry the henchies alone were in just prophecies and factions. Remember how many screamed about that first mission in Factions? lol Now it's a piece of cake to run that mission with 3 heroes. When it was just henchies even I myself would pug to get through certain areas because the henchies were just too stupid and really not powerful enough. (for me). Thus, to give every player 7 heroes would just lower those possibilities of more people to pug with even more. Oh I know there's the diehard (I will never group with anyone types), but, there's also a slew of people who would make the choice of pugging or using henchmen to get through a lot of the content because they just can't make it with henchmen alone or even 3 heroes and henchmen as it is now. I still run into some people who can't get through tough areas with just their 3 heroes and henchmen so they group up with me and my hero setups and then I grab a few other live players and we work our way through. So, you have to ignore those that are just anti-social or below grouping with others at any rate they will be that way till doomsday and they will always support any and all heroes they can get to make the game easier for them. They will use words like more fun and all, but, it's just a coverup for their real reasons of anti-socialism or the ability to keep calling others noobs or no-life's etc. You all know the types.

Darkside · Sep 04, 2008, 09:01 AM // 09:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

Heroes decreased the number of people available for pugging and that's a fact because everyone knows and remembers how sorry the henchies alone were in just prophecies and factions. Remember how many screamed about that first mission in Factions? lol Now it's a piece of cake to run that mission with 3 heroes. When it was just henchies even I myself would pug to get through certain areas because the henchies were just too stupid and really not powerful enough. (for me). Thus, to give every player 7 heroes would just lower those possibilities of more people to pug with even more. Oh I know there's the diehard (I will never group with anyone types), but, there's also a slew of people who would make the choice of pugging or using henchmen to get through a lot of the content because they just can't make it with henchmen alone or even 3 heroes and henchmen as it is now. I still run into some people who can't get through tough areas with just their 3 heroes and henchmen so they group up with me and my hero setups and then I grab a few other live players and we work our way through. So, you have to ignore those that are just anti-social or below grouping with others at any rate they will be that way till doomsday and they will always support any and all heroes they can get to make the game easier for them. They will use words like more fun and all, but, it's just a coverup for their real reasons of anti-socialism or the ability to keep calling others noobs or no-life's etc. You all know the types.

Even if there were no hero's I would still just hench almost everything. I hate waiting for 10 minutes trying to find a group then arguing with the people in the group about the garbage build they are using. Eventually, losing that argument and entering the mission with people running crap like this;

[bad build;OQMV0SXGHaWzZrgSOsAGRCIJAETA]

and knowing that you're going to fail epically.

That build is from a warrior I met in Gate of Madness. He wanted to do Gate of Madness with that build...yah ok I don't think that he would make it past the first marg group. I told him he at least needed wild blow to end Shiro's stances and he refused to even add that skill and went on to say that nothing could hurt him because of his healing skills. Whenever I pug this is what I deal with...idiots using moronic builds that don't work and will the result in mission failure. I don't have time to waste failing missions over and over again with a bunch of morons. I've hero henched almost everything in GW and I will continue to H/H. So why not make it so I can use more hero's? It would just make things more interesting for me since I could mess with more team builds. The missions that I can't complete on my own at the moment wouldn't be any easier with 7 hero's.

Shasgaliel · Sep 04, 2008, 09:07 AM // 09:07

That exactly the point of the discussion " Gimme 7 heroes and I will not PUG anymore".

Darkside · Sep 04, 2008, 09:18 AM // 09:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasgaliel

That exactly the point of the discussion " Gimme 7 heroes and I will not PUG anymore".

I already don't Pug...but every once in a while I lose my sense of reality and think hey I will team up with someone today...then they ping a build like that and I'm snapped viciously back to reality and remember why I don't pug in the first place.

O Nuxtofulakas · Sep 04, 2008, 09:51 AM // 09:51

/not signed

what will be next poll?
"pls limit monster lvl to 20 cause i cannot kill em with stone daggers?"

1. pve is already too easy to win in nm or hm with all those pve only skills etc. If someone wants to solo quests/missions/anything he can easily do it with heroes or without heroes. There are tons of builds for any prof for any situation...7 heroes are not necessary at all.
2. There is more than enough grinding in the game...no need to support it more...
3. There are many hench and many heroes to choose from - learn to adapt to the needs of each quest/mission/anything and modify your team.
4. It's a good reason to learn to play different builds.
5. It's a good reason to learn (at last) what skills the hench use and not just pick em cause they are monks or eles for example...
6. It's a good reason to learn that there is no "useless" profession. Yes paragon and mesmer hench can be a better choice than a stupid w/mo...
7. It's a good reason to learn that rushing on every red dot on the map and pressing 1-2-1-2-1-2 (yes you know what i mean) is not always the best tactic...

cheers

Inner Salbat · Sep 04, 2008, 10:20 AM // 10:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasgaliel

That exactly the point of the discussion " Gimme 7 heroes and I will not PUG anymore".

Eh? giving us 7 Hero's wouldn't stop me using a PuG what a silly notion that is, there are somethings in the game that humans will always be better at than Hero's and or Henchmen, the point is that somethings you cannot use a PuG for because those areas of the game are empty, full of farmers, people just passing through or people that don't have the time to invest.

The only time when you can PuG and I use that term loosely because it's not really a PuG is when you use people from your guild, if your lucky enough to have a guild that does PvE which brings me to yet another reason I don't use that method; even if I rejuvenated my guild, even if I left my guild to one more populated I am yet to find a group of 8 players that plays when I do or how much I do.

upier · Sep 04, 2008, 11:26 AM // 11:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by O Nuxtofulakas

/not signed

what will be next poll?
"pls limit monster lvl to 20 cause i cannot kill em with stone daggers?"

1. pve is already too easy to win in nm or hm with all those pve only skills etc. If someone wants to solo quests/missions/anything he can easily do it with heroes or without heroes. There are tons of builds for any prof for any situation...7 heroes are not necessary at all.

Why does everyone assume that people want heroes for the reduced difficulty?
You are aware that most of the people here have no issues playing with hench (in terms of the difficulty) - but rather HATE the fact that the game does not allow for players to get better at it - which one achieves in a team game by making sure all builds work together?

Quote:

Originally Posted by O Nuxtofulakas

2. There is more than enough grinding in the game...no need to support it more...

What grind would you add by adding full hero parties?

Quote:

Originally Posted by O Nuxtofulakas

3. There are many hench and many heroes to choose from - learn to adapt to the needs of each quest/mission/anything and modify your team.
4. It's a good reason to learn to play different builds.
5. It's a good reason to learn (at last) what skills the hench use and not just pick em cause they are monks or eles for example...
6. It's a good reason to learn that there is no "useless" profession. Yes paragon and mesmer hench can be a better choice than a stupid w/mo...
7. It's a good reason to learn that rushing on every red dot on the map and pressing 1-2-1-2-1-2 (yes you know what i mean) is not always the best tactic...

cheers

By allowing us to use 3 heroes only - I pretty much NEVER get to play anything else but the 3 necros. It's the 3 hero limit that is killing the diversity.
3 necros, 2 monks, warrior(s), possibly the mesmer.
AoE weakness is good, so is Aegis chaining and so is "the wall". And contrary to some other things - heroes do these things well.
Why bother with anything else?

O Nuxtofulakas · Sep 04, 2008, 12:35 PM // 12:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Why does everyone assume that people want heroes for the reduced difficulty?

because it's so obvious...

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

You are aware that most of the people here have no issues playing with hench (in terms of the difficulty) - but rather HATE the fact that the game does not allow for players to get better at it - which one achieves in a team game by making sure all builds work together?

...so you say that they want 7heroes teams just to test their ability to use builds that work together???? just to become "better players"..and you say this is the majority? cmon...you don't believe that...

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

What grind would you add by adding full hero parties?

a simple example....Check the grind with all these runners/solo dungeon farmers who use 2/3 heroes.
Can you imagine the possibilities with a full heroes team?

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

By allowing us to use 3 heroes only - I pretty much NEVER get to play anything else but the 3 necros. It's the 3 hero limit that is killing the diversity.
3 necros, 2 monks, warrior(s), possibly the mesmer.
AoE weakness is good, so is Aegis chaining and so is "the wall". And contrary to some other things - heroes do these things well.
Why bother with anything else?

the fact that you ALWAYS use 3 necros doesn't mean that the game is doing something wrong. It's a free world and it's your decision...
YOU don't like diversity and you use the same heroes all the time...i am sorry to say but this sounds like your problem...
GW offers many different heroes and many hench....and this is diversity for sure...
That's why i said that you have to adapt and learn using different builds or heroes or hench...you have many options and combos...asking to make everything supereasy is not the solution

Inner Salbat · Sep 04, 2008, 01:10 PM // 13:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by O Nuxtofulakas

because it's so obvious...

It's not obvious it's your assumption, there has never been a time when 7 hero's was available so you cannot say if it would "reduced difficulty" or "increase difficulty", people who are using 3 hero's to farm with very likely have to manually control everything they do, when you allow people to control another 4 that is way too much for the majority to control by them self, and even if you could those would be some pretty amazing skills, but I don't think we're asking for that just customizable hero's for the other 4 that operate by them self just like henchmen do.

However my assumption would be that it would be harder not easier and I'm fine with that.

Aside from the fact they could test it out for a couple of months to see where 7 hero's would go to there is nothing stopping them then retracting it too 3, at any rate at some point during GW future it's going to have to happen if you like it or not, because one day the game will be mostly empty a part from a few die hards like me, who is going to group with me then for DoA considering the place is a baron landscape already, and there aren't any henchmen down there at all.

And if it doesn't they may as well turn the servers off because there won't be anyone playing at all.

Aside from the fact I'm already in the planing stages of another account and building that up so I can take a team of 6, and just disconnect when I'm in the area I want to work on on the second account you lose 1 player, but it's a work around for now.